A Reply to a Topic Posted on a Board Regarding the Mixing of BDSM and Gor.  (this post was made in third person speech as it was required on that specific board.)

The topic was:  Do bdsm and Gor mix? Should they even mix? Or are people learning poor information when it is said, "Some Goreans participate in bdsm play, and parties.........and that's 'okay.'"



When ally read what she has of the Gorean books, she found a great deal of similarities between what the fictional slaves felt and what she also felt when it came to the craving of the whip.

Many people believe that BDSM is only a hobby or a sex/bedroom game just as many believe that the Gorean lifestyle is only fantasy role-play. To others, BDSM has nothing to do with the bedroom or sex itself but rather is something far more primal and profound - just as the Gorean lifestyle is as well.

BDSM is such a broad "umbrella" type acronym that encompasses so many different practices and people. There are BDSM weekend warriors. There are BDSM folks who just like to dress up in fetish wear and show off. There are others who use it as a way to engage in all kinds of kinky sex. Then there are others who believe that the exchange (not power exchange) that occurs between Master and slave during B&D and S&M type activities is something far removed from the cartoonish/stereotypical "spank me, I've been bad" image and that it really has very little to do with sex at all.

To ally, any of the above could probably play a part in a Gorean person's life and detract nothing from their principles, beliefs, etc. as long as they don't allow it to and they practice it in a manner that jives with their chosen philosophy and lifestyle.

ally offers something of her own experiences when it comes to the more deep and primal aspects of B&D and S&M that she believes are very clearly presented in the Gorean books.

This girl makes no secret about the fact that she craves the whip. She does not crave to be punished or to act up and get spanked, but rather she craves on an extremely deep level to be beneath the hand of her owner in such a demonstrative and profound manner. To be rendered not only emotionally but also physically helpless. On the flip side, her owner also has a deep seeded need to drive her to the edge and beyond and to show her that in any and every way he could choose, that she is his, her body is his, and that he may do whatever he wishes to it. He may love it, caress it, hurt it, bruise it, or even make it bleed if he should ever choose to. It does not have to include sex (though it may) nor must our sex include BDSM in order for us to "get off." It goes much deeper than that. It is not about sex.

When ally is beaten, it is almost never for punishment. It is for those reasons stated above. It is because it fulfills not only him but "us" on a level that goes beyond fetching a soda from the fridge and using the words "Master" and "slave." And ally's owner, as the orchestrator of both of our lives, is interested in what fulfills both of us. It is the expenditure of those primitive, volatile, and often violent forces that exist in every human being and it is done in a setting that is completely in the control of the man who owns her. It is (in ally's opinion) one of the most primal and deeply emotional ways that a man and a woman can experience and express ownership and surrender.

In the books, the slaves often spoke of craving the whip. They obviously didn't like pain (nor does ally) and they didn't turn into brats just to be whipped. Because of how helpless and vulnerable they had been rendered, they yearned to feel and to endure that lash from their owner as a sign of his ownership - his dominance, and his utter and complete control. There are numerous quotes to support this. It is much the same for ally and for many others she knows. It is the reinforcement, the boundaries, and the somewhat symbolic expression of both his enslavement of her and her surrender to him.

It pleases ally's owner that she is often humbled to such a point that she is reduced to the begging of his whip. She will not misbehave to get it. She will simply beg to feel it, to be beneath his hand and he then chooses whether she will or will not receive it. When he does decide to do so, whether it be at her begging or simply for his own pleasure, ally strives to endure whatever he chooses to administer to her - and she does all of this without the ability to say "red" because of breached comfort levels. He and he alone decides when it begins and when it ends.

She believes that it all depends on what people perceive as BDSM. Do they see it as shallow and kinky sex games of "I've been a brat so please, Daddy spank me but only how and when I want you to" or is it something deeper that ties in to the more primitive and often buried facets of the internal natures of men and women.

To ally, it doesn't matter if you're Gorean or not - while B&D and S&M may be either a hobby or a deeper part of one's existence, it simply personifies and demonstrates those needs that may indeed exist within us - needs that are (in ally's opinion) a large part of what is natural in human beings.

The only quote that ally knows of in the Gorean books that states that sadism did not largely exist on Gor is one that refers to it as wanton cruelty. Sadism in the widely accepted S&M sense is not the practice of cruelty but rather the expression of those very primal needs mentioned above. It isn't about inflicting pain on an unwilling victim (i.e. cruelty) but rather about the symbiosis that exists between he who holds and administers the whip and she who accepts, endures and craves it.

So while some Gorean folks might not wish to engage in B&S or S&M, ally doesn't believe it detracts at all from the Gorean M/s dynamic or lifestyle. In fact, it is ally's personal belief that it can and often does something to the M/s lifestyle that can be extremely fulfilling for both parties involved. She believes that they certainly can mix but she also believes that a person does not become Gorean just because they can wield or endure a whip.